Balance...good question. I'm going to ponder that one. There's a verse trying to make its way out of my brain...I just need to give it a little time. ;-)

Interesting analogy. I've actually had two friends suffer from malignant tumors this year (real ones, not analogies), and I've learned some things. I've learned that malignant tumors are usually confronted with aggressive, no-holds-barred chemical warfare. Massively toxic chemicals with DANGER warnings all over them, which are only handled by fully-cloaked and gloved professionals, are paradoxically injected right into the veins of the sufferer. As these chemicals go to work destroying the malignancy, the human host suffers diabolical side effects, with much pain and anguish, and the haunted feeling that she will never make it through this.

Eventually, the side effects abate slightly, but the treatment relentlessly begins anew. The malignancy is never given a chance to strengthen. It is nuked again and again, without mercy. Each time, it weakens, until one day the host is declared tumor-free. But even then, the protocol continues, hunting down and blitzing any small remaining vestiges of the enemy. To the casual observer, this treatment appears rash and extreme. But the host understands that the potential long-term damage caused by untreated malignant tumors can be devastating, even deadly. For this reason, they cannot be flirted with, nor can treatment be abandoned partway through. It must be decisive, complete, and ongoing.

"If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out, and throw if from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off, and throw it from you; for it is better for you that one of the parts of your body perish, than for your whole body to go into hell." (Matt. 5:29-30)

Betsy

I, too, am going to have to think some on your Bible study offering.

Betsy's comments were certainly enlightening, as I too am a fellow malignancy (analogy, not literal) host. Hmmmm...perhaps shutting my computer in a locked room, along with anything else that would take up my time, like the tv, the yarn, the fabric, the radio, space to stare endlessly in...Yep, I'm going to have to do some more thinking here.

Anyway, on a lighter note, Kim you've been tagged. I know you already read my meme, but now you can answer it too, if you'd like. Directions are here: http://mixednutts.wordpress.com/2007/05/14/8-random-things-about-me/

I answered your Bible study question, at least in part, in this post. http://mixednutts.wordpress.com/2007/05/15/balance-between-the-holy-spirit-and-doctrine/

Thanks, Barbie, for your thoughts! I think your reply is a great one!

Betsy,

I'm so sorry to hear about your friends with real tumors, I hope that my glib analogy was not offensive to you.

I see what you're saying about all-out warfare ... And my sister had begun with that same verse. I struggle with the application; I have found that even when I try my best to radically cut something out, the "somethings" are more the symptom than the problem. I once watched waaaaay too much TV, had it on all day. But when I firmly decided not to have it on during the day, I began being on the computer too much, and the times I've stayed off successfully for a time, I've started reading too much -- even reading GOOD things, but things that take away from what I really should be doing.

I am not sure *I* can launch all out warfare or cut off my own foot ~ I am not sure what is my role and what is the role of the Great Physician. If cancer patients were asked to administer their own toxic and painful chemicals, would they be able to?

And if I radically root out each thing that I waste time on, I think I would end up living like a monk, an ascetic. Which perhaps is not so bad, I do believe God has called some to live that way, but it is difficult to do so in a busy family with children and when God has not placed me away in a monastery ...

But perhaps I am making excuses for myself, perhaps if the computer is my problem I need to do away with it completely. I don't know. I am discouraged and disheartened to consider the all out chemical warfare portion of the analogy because I know I would not be able to administer it myself. If the Lord is willing, He is able to radiate away and destroy the roots of the growths; I am not sure I really know how to be a willing and submitted patient. I mean, as best as I am able, I feel I AM willing ... And yet, I am never free from mixed motives and emotions. I desire to be 100% willing, but I know my heart is still so selfish ...

Sorry, no specific scripture right now...but I think you have to be careful equating the Holy Spirit with your emotions/feelings. They are very different.

We are not to live in our emotions and feelings....which change daily like the wind...but in the truth of God's Word. THe Holy Spirit does not change as our emotions do. THe Spirit will only lead us according to scripture, because, being *God the Spirit*, He will not contradict Himself.

Sorry to break your rule...but I am on the fly and that was an important point to make.

Maybe it would be good to do a study on the Holy Spirit. Who He is, What He does.... :)

That's a good point.

I wasn't very clear (not wanting to sway people's responses) but the original context on 'balance' was not from me, someone else had suggested that ... She was talking about making decisions and needing both the Word and your emotions guided by the Spirit, needing a 'balance of both' ...

My gut feelings is that the Spirit comes through the Word and prayer, not so much as a mystical feelings generator but affirming the truth we find in the Bible ... But that if ALL we have is the facts of the Word and they, through prayer and study, seem irrefutable, we do NOT need to "have balance" with our emotions or claim that's the Spirit, because too often we use our emotions to weasel out of the truth, because we don't "feel" it ...

But then it can be hard to be in long times of "dry" study and not *feel* emotions of joy and peace that the Word talks about during those times ... But does that mean that our doctrine is off? Or is that just emotions being deceiving. This is why I am wary of the 'balance' idea ....

Look, I'm breaking my own rules, LOL - no scripture in this reply.

I think studying the Spirit is a good idea. :-)

Thanks for making that point, Polly!!! :-D

kim

uck, bad habits, i've got a million. hey, pick up the phone once in a while! one of relatives just said in her blog that she hates the phone; all the Andersons do it seems. uck. pick up the phone. : - )

(1) Is 'tumor' the best analogy, or would 'addiction' be a truer analogy? I know I was the one to speak of 'chopping out' and that makes it sound like a tumor.... but for me blogging was an addiction - if I took out 'alcohol' and replaced 'blogging' here (or 'time spent at Flickr' or many other things...) then I would qualify as an addict. Blogging met, or appeared to meet, some of my felt needs - gave me a pretend social life and a few admiring comments, a sense of validation for my writing and my arts and crafts - all of which existed outside of any REAL community.

If it's an addiction, you don't need toxic chemicals - you need help, support, and the desire to really quit abusing the computer. You need to figure out what needs (real or not) you are turning to the computer FOR, and (a) whether or not the computer time meets those needs, (b) whether those needs are healthy, and (c) whether those needs would be better met other ways.

And then at the same time you are "chopping off" computer time, you need to find healthier ways to meet those needs that really are needs. For me, I'm leading an arts family group this summer, which scares me to death but I'm thinking it's probably far healthier than waiting for affirming comments from virtual friends at Flickr....

the 12 steps seems like a good place to start.

(2) I'm having trouble with the "Spirit vs doctrine" thing. The Holy Spirit is a person. He can remind us of doctrinal truth, or he can work within our feelings, or both. Likewise reading the Bible can remind us of doctrinal truth, or produce an emotional response, or both.

But I suspect "lack of a warm fuzzy feeling" is a very different thing than "awareness that emotionally I am far from God." God's presence is not always a "warm fuzzy feeling". Just like any other person - sometimes being aware of God's presence brings tears of repentence or remorse. Sometimes it feels like burning coals. Sometimes it feels downright frightening to meet with God. You don't *always* feel warm and fuzzy when you're with the Grand Lunar, do you?

I think the feeling of being numb or disconnected or distracted is a feeling to pay attention to. You know intuitively - you FEEL - when you are disconnected with Dale, when the two of you have been in two different worlds, when you aren't seeing eye to eye on things. You know when you've gone a few days and have been too busy or distracted, or he's been too busy or distracted, and you haven't heard all his little stories from work and he hasn't heard all your little stories from home. You don't sit there and analyze why you aren't feeling warm and fuzzy - instead you know that you feel "disconnected" and, presumably, you do something about it. You schedule some time together. Or you cut back on your evening commitments. Or you purposely stay up late to sit on the couch together and talk, even though you're both dead tired. Even if you don't feel "warm and fuzzy" after such a conversation, you can tell whether or not you have "connected".

I think emotions are important because they tell us things - just like doctrines do. Either can be misapplied or misinterpreted. For me it isn't a question of 'balance' so much as 'wholeness' - doctrinal truth is a partial truth unless it's fleshed out by emotions, by feelings - just like faith is fleshed out by works. It isn't a question of 'balancing' your faith with your works - it's a question of learning to use both together.

James 2:19 -You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

James 2: 26 - As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Matt 7: 22-23 - "Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' " --knowing God means something beyond just doing good works.

so, faith without works is dead, and works without 'knowing' God is dead. It isn't a question of balance, it is a REAL need for BOTH working together. I think that's true for emotions and doctrine as well.

If all our doctrine is (so far as we know) correct, but our emotions tell us something is still wrong, it's time for some soul-searching. Likewise if we're full of warm fuzzy feelings and everything seems perfect, but we discover that our doctrine isn't in line with the teachings of the Bible.... it's time for some soul-searching.

I suspect doctrine without emotion is dead as well. Not meaning you need the 'warm fuzzy' feeling but that when there is a real relationship with God, there will be real emotions attached to that relationship: longing, joy, fear, repentance, love, guilt, passion, delight, shame, etc. Not just a vague "there should be more here."

Even during dry times and dark nights of the soul there should be longing and desire - not the numbness of post-blogging, where blogging temporarily seems to fill a void that only God should be filling. At least for me... I had to let go of the blog in order to really FEEL the dark night of the soul instead of anaesthetizing myself! :o/

Two helpful (to me) blog entries by the wife of a college friend of mine on emotions and intellect:

http://johnmortensen.com/dregs/?p=140
http://johnmortensen.com/dregs/?p=132

hope that helps... :o)

Kim, I've struggled with this exact issue for years. I think the verse that has helped me the most is Colossians 3:17 "And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him."

If I do my best to remember that everything I do MUST be done for the Lord, then I am more balanced. He wants me to have "down time" to rejuvenate myself, but He, also, wants me to take care of business (my spiritual life, my family, my neighbors, my job).

I am still learning the art of committing my day to Him before I get out of bed and asking for His guidance, but I have seen the results when I do remember, and it is a beautimus thing to behold.

No scripture, nothing of value, but a commendation that if you know something is wrong, the Holy Spirit is working in your heart to tell you so. The hardened heart is near deaf to Him. That you are aware of the malignancy and not just dead is grace.